"Now the very concept of using something you don't know is alien to me." A big interview with Ivan Shyla about business, earning with AI, women, and Botox

We talked with Ivan Shyla about the most personal things — including his rejection of alcohol, living as a Belarusian not in Belarus, unsuccessful and justified investments, as well as the plans of their family cleaning company "Chysty Kit" (Clean Whale) to conquer the world.

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"Attention deficit and hyperactivity syndrome brought me great suffering"

"Nasha Niva": What is Ivan Shyla living for today?

I.Sh.: I'm involved in business, bouldering, and I play football. You could say that my life largely consists of two things — sports and business.

And I can say now that I'm living a happy life. I've stopped fighting myself. Primarily, I'm referring to ADHD (attention deficit and hyperactivity syndrome), which caused me great suffering in the past. I couldn't work normally. It seemed to me that if I couldn't concentrate on a single task, then I had a bad character trait, or that I was lazy.

But today I consider ADHD my advantage. I can think about 20 things simultaneously and do many things in parallel. This is due to artificial intelligence in its current form and the use of antidepressants.

For a long time, I thought that living with anxiety, distress, and unhappiness was normal, that everyone around me lived like that. For instance, I'd look at people and be convinced that deep down they must feel the same as me: thoughts of death every day, feeling unwanted, unskilled, and so on. It turned out that it could be different.

Initially, I was advised to take antidepressants (ADs) to sleep better. I didn't sleep better, but gaining the understanding that life could be different was a radical change. Now I can simply walk down the street and think: "Wow, how beautiful!" That didn't happen before.

"NN": In your case, how long did you have to take medication to achieve such an effect?

I.Sh.: I started taking ADs in January. An additional effect: I now have less anger towards others. I stopped writing nasty comments on Facebook. Before, I often expressed unpleasant things to people, probably because I had many unpleasant feelings, and that was one way of living.

"NN": You also quit alcohol. You recently celebrated 110 days without it. Is this some kind of marathon?

I.Sh.: I'm not so focused on not drinking — I simply don't consume alcohol at all anymore. I quit even before antidepressants because I'm 35 years old, and I've spent enough time with my body to realize that I need to value it a bit. Because, for example,

when I tried drugs at 20, I didn't even think it could end badly. I just wanted to test what my body was capable of. Now the very concept of consuming something you don't know is alien to me. Some pill made God knows where and God knows how.

I value alcohol more and believe that it is sometimes necessary as a means of social interaction. But in my case, it's simple arithmetic: the consequences of alcohol already outweigh its benefits. I might feel more relaxed somewhere, but the next few days were thrown out of my life.

I once thought that alcohol opened up more opportunities for useful acquaintances. But in fact, I drank a lot, sometimes until morning, but alcohol didn't help me with contacts or bring me work.

I had an excellent drinking career; I was a good team player. But the career is over — I will no longer drink alcohol.

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"NN": Can we say that Ivan Shyla is now a healthy lifestyle enthusiast on all fronts, or are there still some "sins" left?

I.Sh.: I really am a healthy lifestyle enthusiast now. I quit smoking a long time ago, I don't drink alcohol, and I don't eat unhealthy food. But I sleep poorly, so I take sleeping pills. You could say I have that dependency.

About two hours a day I spend on sports (mostly bouldering, and also running and football). 30 minutes on German, and all the rest on work.

"NN": Do you continue to learn German for work communications or do you have thoughts about relocating?

I.Sh.: I live in Warsaw, and I definitely don't plan to get a German passport. I've been learning German for four years now. It's just a process that I enjoy.

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"I am deeper in the Belarusian context than probably 99% of emigrants"

"NN": Politics always occupied a large part of your life; what piece of it is left?

I.Sh.: I live within the Belarusian context. I don't start my day by reading Polish news, for example. Of course, I'm minimally aware of what's happening in Polish politics, but I more often read "Nasha Niva" — that's how it has historically turned out.

Sometimes I feel bad due to my deep immersion in the Belarusian context. In the sense that many people in my circle no longer live in it and don't understand why I'm interested, figuratively speaking, in what Pavel Latushka wrote about Sabalenka.

I am deeper in the Belarusian context than probably 99% of emigrants.

I have not become a part of Polish society and do not want to forcibly change my identity. I feel myself to be part of the Belarusian community — accordingly, I am more interested in what is happening with Belarusian society.

In addition, having a journalistic background, I create pro-Belarusian projects. For example, short videos about Belarus 1000belarus — it already has five million views monthly, and it is almost entirely made by artificial intelligence.

I have similar projects about Poland and football. There will also be one about Belarusian music. However, I create much worse content about Poland because I am less familiar with it.

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"NN": Who irritates you the most in Belarusian politics today, and whom do you respect?

I.Sh.: I won't say who irritates me, because there's no point. I generally don't see the point in engaging in politics today, because it's as if it doesn't exist, and you'll most likely lose.

You can engage in culture. In this sense, Ryhor Astapenia (my classmate, by the way) and Pasha Matsukevich, within the framework of the "Maldzis" initiative, are doing cool things. And I am one of their patrons; I regularly donate money for the acquisition of certain Belarusian cultural values.

I like that the result of this activity is immediately visible and clear for the future.

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"With the help of AI, I can do anything"

"NN": Besides everything we've mentioned here, you also program. Where does all that energy come from? Is this precisely the consequence of your ADHD composition?

I.Sh.: That too. Plus, I'm genuinely fascinated by what's happening with artificial intelligence today. And we are just at the beginning of grand changes.

I've been interested in this for four years and have made significant progress. With the help of AI, I can do anything: launch businesses, create applications, manage my 60 Instagram channels. And I can also quickly see results here.

Previously, for example, to create an application, I had to spend a lot of money, assemble a team... Now, from idea to implementation, it can take two hours. The development cost has effectively become zero.

I don't want to sound like some motivational coach, but thanks to mastering coding and AI, I can earn an additional 3-4 thousand dollars monthly on various side projects because I can do them very quickly. Of course, at the start, I was in a more advantageous and comfortable position than, say, a taxi driver who is forced to work 12 hours to pay rent. But what I have is also the result of my work. I have never had a vacation and almost never have days off. I work all the time.

Plus, now work brings me satisfaction because I can do everything I imagine myself. It's an incredible thing.

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I am an old person in the sense that I remember how the internet appeared. How I made the first websites in the early 2000s — on narod.ru, the website of the Salihorsk "Young Front" and other things, and my head just exploded with the realization that I could create something on the internet and people could access it. Now there are hundreds of times more of that "wow" factor.

"NN": With such a schedule, there seems to be no room left for a personal life...

I.Sh.: I'm not in a relationship right now. I live alone, and I like it. I've always either rented an apartment with someone or lived with my parents. And now, for the first time, I have the opportunity to live alone, and I'm comfortable with it.

"NN": On the path to self-improvement, do you still seek the services of cosmetologists, for example? For better effects.

I.Sh.: Yes, I go to cosmetologists, get injections, and various routine procedures. Botox is top-notch. I will never give it up. I had wrinkles all my life; now they are gone, and I like it.

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"Work in New York is currently at a loss"

"NN": In February, your company Clean Whale made its first test order in the USA. Despite previous experience with opening 15+ cleaning services in various European countries, you admitted that everything there went (and is going) very complicatedly. What is the main reason?

I.Sh.: Americans are different, with a different consumer culture. And our understanding of how various services work was closer to the Polish market than to the American one.

I can't say that we've fully understood how to work in the USA. We are working, sometimes we have 20-25 orders a day, we pay taxes, but it's operating at a loss. For now, I can't say if we will end the battle in New York with a victory.

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"NN": Who manages the new American direction?

I.Sh.: We have a registered company there, with a formal director who is paid a salary. But in reality, the business is managed from Warsaw. We don't aim to open many physical offices. We strive to become a large marketplace for home services. We want to process them and ensure the security of transactions.

CleanWhale is a fairly compact business. Today we have 35 employees. And we plan to increase work volumes tenfold in the future, without significantly expanding the team. Today, one person covers one city and a thousand orders, but will be able to cover an entire region and 15 thousand.

We have significantly changed the business recently in terms of using algorithms. In terms of applying modern technologies, there is simply nothing close in cleaning services in Europe itself.

In Warsaw and Berlin, we won against very large companies. With tens of millions in investments. And they exited the market, offering us to buy their local business. But there was nothing technologically interesting for us there.

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By the way, I used to be ashamed that we didn't have an international business in the sense that we don't have Polish managers in Poland, for example. Or because a European company speaks Russian. But the model is working, so I decided that it's not worth rebuilding ourselves just because investors said so or it's written somewhere. We have our own way.

"NN": How much money have you already invested in the American branch?

I.Sh.: To simply open a cleaning service in New York, you actually need zero money. You hire people, launch Instagram, and go look for clients. But to truly build a business, you need at least 150 thousand dollars in investment (especially for our model, as we are trying to conquer a significant part of the market and do many cleanings and other orders). You have to say goodbye to that amount and wait for it to return.

For comparison, to launch a company in Warsaw, the Shyla brothers spent about 15 thousand euros, in Krakow — about 4 thousand euros.

It's worth noting that advertising is very expensive in the States. Especially in New York.

"NN": Does the Polish market bring you the main profit today?

I.Sh.: Poland wins in terms of scale, as we've covered many cities here. If we talk about business profitability, then the Czech Republic could, in principle, be among the leaders.

"NN": How many orders does "Chysty Kit" process per month?

I.Sh.: About 10-15 thousand.

We currently have many services, not just cleaning. You can even order drain cleaning — a large vehicle with special equipment will arrive. We sell "leads": this includes minor repairs like wall painting, equipment repair, and even landscaping services. Our goal is to offer everything that is in one way or another related to the home. But cleaning remains the core.

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"The customer is always right" — that's from some business textbooks, little connected to reality."

"NN": Everything looks great, but here's one real case: your cleaners arrived to clean a freshly renovated apartment and scratched the windows, as well as the new bathtub. How is this possible for a market-leading company?

I.Sh.: This isn't even the worst that could happen. This is a peculiarity of consumer business. Such things will happen because people cannot be controlled. Maybe robots will appear and rectify the situation. But as long as people work here, they will be late, damage things, use alcohol (as taxi drivers and others do, for example).

The question is only about the number of such problematic situations and how we can react to them. We have a page where all our real-time ratings are visible (they are also duplicated on social networks). And you can see the probability of your bathtub being damaged. The probability of a bad cleaning with us is 3.7%. Out of 100 cleanings, four will go badly. Several more won't happen at all because no one will arrive for the clients. This is part of mass service.

Of course, if we were running a small family-type company, where my brother and I would also do the cleaning, then probably everything would be excellent in 100% of cases. But at our scale, I cannot promise that to clients.

And if you take the reviews of any other cleaning company or marketplace and start studying the bad reviews, they will all be the same. Something was damaged, they smoked on the job, they were rude, they didn't show up, they were late, the price was unfixed. No one is able to completely solve any of these problems. But we are trying to, for example, make a better matching of cleaners and clients — assigning specific people to specific homes.

"NN": How do you deal with obvious failures by cleaners?

I.Sh.: The client receives an offer for what we consider reasonable compensation. There is also insurance if something, hypothetically, burns down.

If you want a big business, you will definitely have bad situations. The only thing I'll say is: we are 90% likely not to lose a bad review, no matter where it's written. And we address it to the performers. What happens next is a big question. It depends on many factors. Even the worst rating does not automatically mean that the person will no longer fulfill orders. We don't always take the clients' side. "The customer is always right" — that's from some business textbooks, little connected to reality.

"NN": What is your current monthly turnover?

I.Sh.: I wouldn't want to name specific figures. We're talking about millions of zlotys (more than $250 thousand), but in the space of European giants, we are still a "small business." We're not even in the top 100 companies in Poland with Belarusian roots. Yes, among cleaning companies in Poland, specifically in our niche (working with private clients in their houses and apartments), we are already number one. But this only indicates that the mountain we were climbing wasn't that high. At the same time, many other companies and private contractors continue to crawl "from below" and try to push you off this spot.

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"NN": Are your main goals further expansion of geography and the number of orders?

I.Sh.: Our plan is to grow fast, strong, and technologically first and foremost. In the near future — to cover another 20-30 cities with our services.

As soon as we see that the business in New York has started to generate money, we will immediately add 20-30 cities in the USA.

An unsolicited piece of advice that I once formulated for myself: business is about numbers, and it's not a hobby. You might lose the desire to do it, but even without that, a real business must continue to exist.

A year ago, I was still thinking: "We need to hire additional people from outside our circle to bring in a different business management culture." But half a year ago, I realized that artificial intelligence would manage the business. And I don't need to hire an additional director. Of course, soft skills are often important. But we are not a public company that needs to report to investors and try to please them.

"Almost every year I lose money as an investor"

"NN": Tell us about your investment experience. In 2024, you invested money in three bars — two in Warsaw and one in Berlin, but it didn't work out. Why?

I.Sh.: This is not the only business I've put money into that didn't bring me much. Almost every year, I lose money as an investor. Very rarely do things work out for me.

There's a tale that you should invest in ten businesses because one of them is bound to succeed and bear fruit. But Alexander Knyrovich will confirm to you that this is not true (the businessman invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in startups — not a single one took off. — NN).

With the bars, there was a moment when my brother and I started earning a bit of money, and there was an urge to direct it somewhere. It seemed that Belarusians, as excellent craftsmen, could make their business even more successful everywhere than in Belarus. But it's not like that with bars. There are a million nuances there.

The truth is that the hospitality business is the last business you should get into if you're counting on profit. One way or another, we gained invaluable experience, so to speak. We became different (smiles).

"NN": How much money did you bury in this project — three bars in one?

I.Sh.: Maybe the cost of a one-room apartment in Minsk. Some of the money came back to us. And I also got a big discount on alcohol there. It's a pity that I rarely drank even then (smiles).

"NN": What would you advise those who also want to start earning with the help of AI? Or do you plan to automate part of the existing processes in the company for better efficiency?

I.Sh.: The meaning of "I'll go take some courses" plans has almost been lost today. They used to tell me: "You must understand project architecture, because, of course, code is top-notch, but you won't be able to do complex things." I am now doing super complex things. But it's more important not just to learn how to write a project; you should think about how to distribute and promote it afterward. Why this idea will resonate with other people.

It's like with content: there's good AI content, interesting and viral, and then there's low-quality content. You need to think about how to do it well. There are many tools now; everyone has them, but their mere presence won't make you competitive, because it's still a world of chances.

Read books, learn languages, play sports, don't neglect antidepressants if needed — these are the super tips.

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