“You can get money for fighting for transgender rights, or against them.” Olga Karach – on life in Vilnius, illnesses and income

Vitebsk public figure Olga Karach moved to Lithuania. She says it's for the duration of the coronavirus, but admits she's preparing to send her children to a Vilnius school.

In a long online interview with "Nasha Niva," she spoke about her current life and health, as well as the protection of transgender people, the irrelevance of opposition primaries, and the sale of her newspaper "Vitebsk Courier."

Павялічыць

"Nasha Niva": You are not in Belarus today, I understand?

Olga Karach: I left Belarus on the evening of March 16, because the borders were closing. Now I am in Vilnius.

Why I left: due to my illness, I need special therapy with medication every two weeks. I could miss it, but the consequences would not be very good. And I had to make a difficult choice. I left two hours before the borders closed as a result.

"NN": And you couldn't get this therapy in Belarus?

OK: No, unfortunately. The treatment is expensive.

And in Lithuania, my organization "Our House" is registered, where I officially work and pay taxes; I fundamentally don't want to pay them in Belarus.

And although I don't have Lithuanian citizenship, nor a residence permit, in Lithuania I receive medications for free, in Belarus, that's out of the question. Maybe for a fee, but the medications cost so much that for three months of treatment, you could buy a car with that money. I don't have the means to pay such sums.

"NN": The treatment is related to Bechterew's disease, right?

OK: Yes. This disease causes the body to perceive my bones as cancer. Accordingly, the body "fights" them as if they were cancer. And the treatment is similar to cancer treatment. And if there is no treatment, a person is simply twisted like a slug, the spine deforms. If it weren't for this therapy, I wouldn't be able to walk, I'd be on crutches, or even in a wheelchair.

As it is, my therapy helps to "freeze" the process. But the treatment kills immunity. And so for me today, the coronavirus is a big challenge, because I am in a risk group due to my therapy. But I have to choose the lesser evil.

"NN": More on coronavirus later. You say you fundamentally didn't want to pay taxes in Belarus?

OK: Yes. For me, this is an important point. Firstly, I cannot get information about where the taxes go. And what I see, I fundamentally don't like. Therefore, if it wasn't Lithuania, it would be another country with which Belarus has agreements on the recognition of tax payments. I fundamentally don't want to pay them in Belarus. I don't want to finance parades, Lukashenka's girls with watermelons, and so on.

"NN": But by the same logic, you don't finance doctors or teachers, for example.

OK: This problem exists, I agree. And how to solve it is not entirely clear to me. But I don't get treatment in Belarus. My illness has been confirmed in three countries, but Vitebsk doctors have not confirmed it. Because, as I see it, they don't really understand what is being talked about at all.

"NN": Are you in Lithuania with your husband and two children?

OK: Yes. I didn't think the borders would close for such a long time. But for now, we're staying here. And I want to say that Lithuania is surprising. I wouldn't say it's an ideal country, but it's impressive how they help both citizens and non-citizens get through these difficult days.

There are fines here, and prohibitions on moving from city to city, and other things, but the state also helps a lot. For example, they distributed free tablets to schoolchildren for distance learning. Today, Belarus received about 60 million euros in aid from the European Union to combat the coronavirus. Providing Belarusian schoolchildren with tablets would cost about a million euros [in fact, there are about a million schoolchildren in Belarus — "NN"]. And that would be real help, concrete help, especially for large families. Because where would a family with five children get 5 computers so that the children could all be on them at the same time during distance learning?

Also, my husband, for example, is paid 65% of his salary by Lithuania, because he is at home looking after the children who are not going to kindergarten due to the coronavirus situation.

"NN": What about informing the public in Lithuania? How fully do the authorities provide information about the coronavirus?

OK: You know, I lose my peace of mind when I start comparing the information provided to people in Belarus and Lithuania. Because there is no panic in Lithuania.

I participated in Zoom hangouts with ordinary Lithuanians who have nothing to do with politics. No one has panic. Yes, there is concern about the economy. But information about the situation is very detailed. They talk about who got infected and where, they even discuss mistakes, people are even told that there was an initiative and it didn't work. There's a hotline you can call if a person thinks they're sick or is just worried. They answer in Lithuanian, Polish, Russian, and English.

Plus there's a food bank. For example, a single pensioner can just call the city hall – and they will deliver a package with a set of products for free. Yes, the set won't be super luxurious, but the person won't starve.

In hospitals, no one hides information, doctors are not afraid to give comments.

And all this calms people down.

In Vitebsk, for example, various rumors are circulating. Someone says that gynecologists are being sent to work in infectious disease departments, someone says that all hospitals will be repurposed as pulmonology centers... But how can you check this? If you call the chief doctor, no one will answer questions. Hence all these rumors that are spreading.

In Lithuania, journalists receive a lot of information directly from hospitals. There was a story in a small town when a doctor fell ill, at first didn't take it seriously, infected patients... And they tell journalists about this! Without names, of course, but in detail.

Being informed reduces panic.

"NN": Do people in Lithuania collect aid for doctors? Masks, money?

OK: Not masks, because doctors here are very well "equipped". Even their suits are like astronauts', not disposable. There's no mass sewing of masks by people because there aren't enough in hospitals.

And Lithuanians also collected money to help doctors. I think about half a million euros were collected.

There are problems too. There was a moment when people simply bought up disinfectants. Masks are available, but they have become significantly more expensive: they were 20 cents, now they are 70. In my opinion, this is robbery if a disposable mask costs that much, you need a lot of them.

"NN": Do you believe the official figures announced by the Belarusian Ministry of Health?

OK: No, of course not. And what are those numbers?

There are so many inconsistencies... A simple example: officially, the first coronavirus case was on March 1st. But the chairman of the regional executive committee, Sharstnyov, said the first case was at the end of February. And whom to believe in such a situation? The regional executive committee? The Ministry of Health?

And I noticed that almost all the deaths reported by the Ministry of Health are cases that independent media wrote about. What kind of trust can we talk about?

***

"NN": Do you have your own apartment in Vilnius?

OK: We rent a small house outside the city. It's relatively cheap. A house outside the city costs about the same as renting a two-room apartment in Vilnius, which wouldn't even be in the very center.

"NN": How much is that, if it's not a secret?

OK: I wouldn't want to say the sum.

But I will note that talks about expensive utility bills in Lithuania are the result of some local propaganda that is spread in Belarus. Recently, I was arguing with Pyotr Pyatrouski, he said that in Europe, hundreds and hundreds of euros are paid for utility services. No, everything depends on the house, on the renovation, on heating costs. But these are not such large sums. Maybe 30-40% more than in Belarus. But the difference in salaries is significant.

"NN": And what do you do now, how do you make a living? How does your husband earn money?

OK: We work at the public organization "Our House".

"NN": And your husband too?

OK: He's also a journalist, he writes articles.

"NN": And where does he publish?

OK: Sometimes in "Vitebsk Courier", sometimes on the "Our House" website, sometimes freelance. It varies.

"NN": So, by working at "Our House", you are effectively paying your husband's salary?

OK: If he earned it, then yes. If he didn't earn it, then no (smiles).

"NN": And how much do you earn per month? What is your family's budget?

OK: If possible, I'd rather not say. But I can say that life in Vilnius is cheaper than in Minsk. This was a surprise to me, that food prices are lower. Especially if you use promotions, discounts, then there's a big difference, it's much more expensive in Minsk.

Clothes are also somehow very expensive in Belarus. If you buy Polish clothes for a child here, it will cost 2 euros. But in Belarus, in "Svitanak," I will buy a T-shirt for 5-10 euros, and after one wash in the washing machine, it will be a rag, substandard.

I don't want to say that everything is bad in Belarus, but everything is organized through one place.

"NN": What is the budget of your organization "Our House"?

OK: I won't say (laughs).

"NN": Your former associates estimated your campaign's annual budget at approximately $100,000.

OK: That's about right.

"NN": You recently sold the publication "Vitebsk Courier". What was the main reason?

OK: We had been discussing the sale for a long time. We wanted new managers to come in, preferably from business. We wanted the "Courier" to develop. When we started dealing with the newspaper in 2006, we were kicked out of the printing house, from subscriptions, our license was revoked, journalists were detained... And we stood by the newspaper like a wall to ensure the publication survived. But holding back pressure doesn't mean developing. These are completely different strategies.

Therefore, we began looking for an option for a team with new ideas and strengths to come in. In recent years, the "Courier" had been developing well, with growing readership. And we wanted to hand it over to good managers, to remove the reputation, the shadow that my opposition activities cast on the publication.

And the condition was that the editorial policy would not change. We met several times with the buyer, discussed that for at least six months, the people responsible for the business wouldn't interfere, wouldn't tell the editorial staff what to print.

In practice, however, all agreements after the sale went out the window, and the buyer began to interfere in the affairs of the editorial office after just two weeks, saying that this couldn't be written about, that couldn't be written about... And this is despite the fact that for the last few years, the "Courier" was not an opposition publication!

"NN": The buyer is Minsk startup owner Aleksey Shablovsky. Did he approach you, or did you make him an offer?

OK: He approached us himself. But he wasn't the only one. However, during the conversations, it seemed that he understood what we wanted. And as a result, we sold the publication to him.

"NN": Did he explain why he needed a regional portal?

OK: It's still strange to me today what he wanted from it. We didn't hide anything, we told everything in detail, about all the situations, about our thoughts, that it's important for the publication to survive. We explained that the "Courier" could be monetized, it's just that we lacked business competencies.

And it seemed that the person understood us, looked adequate. But later it turned out that he himself was incompetent in business processes. Because he should have at least just sat down and talked to the chief editor, resolved the conflict situations. I offered to mediate between him and the team, but he just laughed in response.

We never treated people according to the principle "I'm the boss - you're an idiot." Lukashenka's approach to work provoked the editorial staff to leave. Today, there are effectively two "Vitebsk Couriers", and no one is better off for it.

I believe that Shablovsky acted incompetently as an entrepreneur.

"NN": How much did Shablovsky pay you for the publication?

OK: 2 thousand dollars. Such a low price was precisely due to the fact that we asked him not to fire any of the six journalists for the first 6 months.

But the editorial staff ceased to exist two weeks after the sale.

"NN": What was the readership before the sale?

OK: About 40 thousand unique visitors daily. For Vitebsk, these are good numbers.

"NN": Do you regret selling the publication?

OK: I regret choosing the wrong person.

***

"NN": Your last project was aimed at protecting transgender people. Are you continuing to work on it?

OK: The "Our House" campaign, by its structure, is indeed similar to an apartment building. It has many "apartments," many different campaigns. For example, the latest one is "Corona-2020," collecting information on the coronavirus situation.

And there are very small, local campaigns, and there are national ones. With transgender people, it happened like this: a group of trans women came to us and said that there were certain problems with gender transition and related issues. We thought about it and decided that this topic also deserved attention. No one was really dealing with it.

"NN": So, people came to you first, then you took up this topic?

OK: That's how it happens with us: people come, "bring" a question. Then together we start working on it. That's how it was when the "Mothers 328" came.

We are interested in protecting people who are invisible, marginal because they are not the majority.

"NN": I've heard a version that grants aren't given for politics, but money can be obtained for LGBTQ+ protection today.

OK: No. In fact, if we talk about the financial side, money can be obtained for any projects. Let me give an example: when there was the Maidan in Ukraine, the European Commission allocated three million euros for saving French hamsters. So believe me, if it were about money, I would be dealing with French hamsters. That's a profitable and safe business compared to fighting the Belarusian Department of Penal Enforcement.

I don't even know what you can't get money for today if you really want to. You can get money to fight for transgender rights, you can get money to fight against transgender rights — funds are also allocated for that, just from different structures.

"NN": What was done, besides this story about fighting the identification number in the passport, which turned out to be somewhat comical?

OK: And what's comical about it?

"NN": Because the state itself canceled this digital gender identification in the passport number.

OK: No, now it's the same problem again. There's some confusion, that's the point...

The problem is that the number is not changed for everyone whose passport was issued before 2012. Not changed at all. It turns out that since 2012, identification numbers have been issued without indicating gender, as I thought should be done.

But in the passports of older people, the numbers remain. And this creates a lot of problems, including dismissals. If, for example, a person got a job at a bank, the security service notices that the number is male. But this is a woman. And they simply don't extend her contract. Such cases exist, it's just that trans people are not particularly ready to publicize them, they have suffered enough as it is. They are now generally more afraid of ordinary people than, for example, of the authorities.

Another point is that transgender people have to go through a psychiatric hospital. Plus, the final decision is up to a commission. Moreover, the decision is made "by eye," based on how much the person corresponds, loosely speaking, whether they look like a man or a woman. And only after that does the commission give permission for hormonal drugs. If a person comes who looks like a "normal" man and tells the commission that he wants to be a woman, they may not give him permission. And so people who dare to transition to another gender sometimes start taking hormonal drugs themselves without authorization.

"NN": So, were there any specific projects you worked on regarding this topic?

OK: We wanted to organize trips to Vilnius for transgender people so they could rest and recover, but for now, it's on hold because it's unclear how to organize it. The borders are closed, after all.

***

"NN": You have two children, right?

OK: Yes. 5 and 6 years old.

"NN": How do you manage?

OK: It's interesting. Now the kindergarten has organized distance learning for school, with daily classes. And on the one hand, I'm glad that we have this whole situation with quarantine and everything else, because I've learned some things about my children that I didn't know myself or perceived differently. We spend much more time with the children now. Before, I traveled a lot, spent a lot of time in Belarus. But now everyone is home, and the children really like that.

In September, they are supposed to go to school, to the so-called "zero" grade. For now, it's unclear, however, how all this will be organized. We are working on it.

The most terrible thing for me, though, is ballet.

"NN": Ballet?

OK: That's a serious challenge!

I never did gymnastics or anything like that. But today the children are doing ballet. And they are now preparing for a performance, with daily online classes. And the children refuse to do it without us. So I am forced to do ballet with them at home... And it's hardcore! (laughs).

It looks a bit sad, because the child has flexibility, and I have Bechterew's disease. But I also have to wave my arms and legs. It's hard. Ballet turned out to be a test for the whole family.

"NN": I apologize for such a question: they say about you and surrogate motherhood...

OK: No. It did not happen.

"NN": By the way, what if one of your children decides to change gender?

OK: For me, that's not a problem at all. The main thing for me is for my children to be happy.

It's really funny, though, that my children are very "stereotypical" (laughs). My daughter loves pink, she's such a "cute-cute" girl, interested in jewelry and lipstick.

***

"NN": Today, opposition primaries are taking place. Are you following them? Who did you vote for?

OK: I'm following, but I didn't vote. I really like the idea of primaries, but it's at least 5 years too late, if not 10.

The idea of primaries is to mobilize supporters to gain a few extra months of campaigning during the presidential election. In 2015, the idea would have made sense, but today it's outdated.

Today will be a different watershed. We have a unique situation this year. There will be a presidential candidate from the West – that’s Alexander Grigorievich. And there will be a candidate from Russia.

"NN": And who will be from Russia?

OK: I don't know that. But I think the division will be between Russia and the West. What will Belarus choose? To stay with Russia or move towards Europe?

"NN": Among the opposition, do you find anyone sympathetic as a presidential candidate?

OK: They are all very likable as people. Severinets, for example – it's a pity he withdrew from the primaries.

But my candidate isn't there. Because a candidate must answer the most important questions. The most important today is the relationship between Russia and Belarus. The second question is the relationship between man and state in our society. And again, the questions of relationships between citizens themselves.

And this question of the traditional family, which primaries participants cannot criticize, immediately cuts off our large group, if I may say so.

I understand that issues of gender identity are not problems for ordinary Belarusians. A Belarusian doesn't wake up in the morning and think: "How is my friend doing, who is going to change gender?" Of course, this doesn't concern Belarusians at all, it's outside their worldview.

Nevertheless, we all need a serious discussion about values in society. And primarily about how much the state can interfere in the family. This is not so much about LGBT issues, but about issues of domestic violence, about issues when social services take away children. Because all these issues are resolved absolutely differently. There is no unified system, but there should be one, there should be a unified approach, a concept: what to do in a given situation.

"NN": Why are you outside of politics today? Didn't you run for candidate, for example?

OK: Well, we're not participating in the primaries for obvious reasons: the idea is outdated, and they've messed up with their principles for candidates.

As for politics – well, we'll see. I would say that today is an interesting time. For 25 years we said that a time would come, which we are all preparing for, and then we would use that time...

That time has come. Opportunities are opening up, society is listening in a completely different way. This has never happened before. People are asking questions, writing - this is the time. But what to do with it is not very clear.

We'll see. Whether we have left politics or not - I will answer in about a month.

***

"NN": A couple of your quotes. You said: "We have very high demands on activists. Much higher than in other organizations. We want to create and develop a 'dream team'." At the same time, you are known for cooperating with various eccentrics, like Agafonov [former UCP activist who became a staunch supporter of the "Russian world" — "NN"].

OK: Well, he's not on our team today. And how can you test a person without working with them?

For me, a person's views are not that important, because I believe that a dream team is built from people with different views. If people within a team don't tell each other that they don't like something or disagree with something, then it's not a dream team. A dream team is not when everyone sits and nods. Such a team meets daily with Alexander Grigorievich.

The team is strengthened precisely when people who are for Russia sit together with people who are for Europe. And they find common ground and can work together.

And in general, human qualities are more important to me. That a person is not rotten. Doesn't do mean things. I can say that there are politicians in Belarus who are very close to me in their views. But I will never work with them because I consider them rotten people.

"NN": Name them.

OK: "Tell the Truth," for example. I won't work with them, although we agree on many positions.

"NN": You also once said: "Many in the opposition are nostalgic for the BSSR and want to return there."

OK: Yes. That's true.

"NN": Give an example.

OK: Well, there are many such people in your editorial office.

This is generally my favorite topic. Let me explain. It's impossible to build a "Russian world" in Belarus. But it's possible to build a "Belarusian world" within the "Russian" or "European world." And many people in Belarus, and especially in the opposition, are nostalgic for the BSSR and would like to return there.

For example, it seems to me that Belarusian and Belarusian-speaking writers had a certain weight in the BSSR. And people would like to regain that, and it's very obvious and understandable.

"NN": I see. By the way, you had a very loud skirmish on Facebook about the Belarusian language a long time ago...

OK: Yes, because I said that positive discrimination of the Belarusian language was needed. Maybe the phrase "positive discrimination" didn't please everyone...

The discussion was about the fact that if Belarusian language is introduced en masse, preparatory work is still needed.

We faced this when printing leaflets about utility services. We thought about printing in Russian or Belarusian, because it turned out to be difficult with housing and communal services terminology. Terms could be translated into Belarusian, but a hypothetical grandmother simply wouldn't understand them. She doesn't understand these terms even in Russian.

And by positive discrimination, I meant a support program. For example, if a company keeps its accounting in Belarusian, it receives tax benefits or some other "goodies" so that people switch to Belarusian and the language permeates all spheres.

In addition, language reform is needed. I don't mean to unite, but to find some golden mean. Because today there's Tarashkevich's orthography, actively used in the opposition, there's Narkamauka, used by the state, there's Latin script... And now, it's a mess, you understand? In principle, this is normal for the situation in which the Belarusian language finds itself, but reform is needed, the development of unified rules.

"NN": You then, it seems, said that you plan to send your children to a Belarusian-speaking kindergarten. Did you?

OK: They will go to a Belarusian-language school.

"NN": In Vilnius?

OK: Yes. The entire education there is in Belarusian. We are now preparing the children, reading to them in Belarusian, sometimes speaking Belarusian with my husband.

"NN": Another one of your quotes: "Many reproach me for achieving a lot through being in bed with women." What is that about?

OK: Belarusian society sometimes believes that if you talk about LGBTQ+ rights, then you are LGBTQ+ yourself. I've encountered this too. But I can say: if I had a romance with a woman, I wouldn't hide it. But whether it's unfortunately or fortunately, it didn't happen.

"NN": Another quote: "I lost sight in one eye." What happened?

OK: I lost my sight three times. Today everything is normal, it has recovered.

This is precisely related to Bechterew's disease. Three times, I simply lost vision in one eye. The first time was on a plane between Vienna and Prague. I didn't understand what was happening then, there was a feeling of strong pain: as if an axe was plunged into my skull — and blackness in one eye. I thought a vessel had burst or there was a brain hemorrhage... I was very scared. From the airport, I immediately went to the hospital. The doctor looked at me and asked: what autoimmune disease do you have?

I thought: wow, what medicine! Diagnosing a spinal disease by looking at the eyes!

And then it turned out that my eye problems were one of the manifestations of Bechterew's disease. I was then given injections into my eye for a week. Everything recovered.

Later, it happened twice more. I have endoprostheses, we even joke in the family that I'm a real "iron lady" because I have titanium prostheses in my hips. And when one of the prostheses was being installed, it so happened that one eye went blind. And from orthopedics, I was immediately taken to ophthalmologists: on crutches and with one eye.

As long as I'm on therapy, my vision isn't lost. Everything is fine. I can walk in heels and see with both eyes.

"NN": You also mentioned in an interview that you had a missed miscarriage.

OK: The situation was difficult. September 2008, I was alone in Minsk, in my third month of pregnancy. My husband had gone to some seminar in Volkovysk, I think.

And suddenly at night, I started bleeding very heavily. I called an ambulance, they took me to the maternity hospital, where I spent a month. Because there they performed an operation on me, removed the deceased fetus, and complications began due to my Bechterew's disease — blood poisoning started.

I had a mass of impressions after that maternity hospital. You simply cannot treat women like that. In Belarus, the situation with medical equipment may be normal, but there are big problems with human relations at all levels. For example, I was brought to consciousness simply by the girls from the ward. In our ward, three women with missed miscarriages and three women "on preservation" were lying. And it was Groundhog Day: my fetus died, but I was forced to stay in the maternity hospital due to bad test results after the operation. And next to me, the same pattern repeated: a woman is brought in, then taken for a " D&C". Brought back, the woman recovers from anesthesia, starts crying. She is looked after by the girls who are "on preservation." Then the woman is discharged the next day, a new one is brought to her place. And so it went for a whole month.

Moreover, the girls "on preservation" themselves don't know what will happen to their pregnancy. But they comforted us, made tea, held our hands while we cried... But there should be some psychological help. They treat cows better. My grandmother in the village treated her cows better than we were treated in the maternity hospital.

And I then wondered: what is wrong with the health of the Belarusian nation? Because there was a terrible number of missed miscarriages, regardless of the woman's age or lifestyle. There were very few abortions, though.

And no one studied the reasons. No one dealt with it. No one ever told me why I lost the fetus.

The doctor then also told me that a first missed miscarriage is now standard. I can't verify the information, maybe she just told me that to comfort me. But if those words were true, it's a disaster.

• 3
• 0
• 0
• 1
• 1
• 0
• 1
• 0