Maksim Znak on the press conference in Ukraine: We agreed not to raise the most painful topics — torture, sanctions, war. Maybe we should have done it differently

Maksim Znak. Video screenshot: chestnok_live / YouTube

During the interview, Aliaksandr Ivulin touched on a painful topic for many: were the events of 2020 worth the horrific consequences that thousands of people are experiencing?

"Someone will say it's inmate ethics — but if someone insults you, you must definitely respond, otherwise you lose your honor. And honor cannot be lost under any circumstances. In my opinion, this is generally the history of humanity. Throughout the ages, noble people (I mean nobility not as lineage, but as a quality) always responded to a challenge. That is, if their honor was challenged, they could not but respond. Otherwise, they would cease to be themselves," Znak replied.

Maksim is confident that people express doubts about the expediency of the protests, which "arise from a certain frustration, completely understandable":

"Because we are here now, as it is. Fates have turned out differently, very great sacrifices, very tragic consequences in this situation. And one really wants (...) to also blame all this on ourselves: we are to blame for being tortured here."

However, as Maksim argues, one should not blame oneself.

"What would have happened if nothing like this had happened? Well, probably we would all have stayed in Belarus. Great? Well, great. But you know what's happening in the world now, you know what the attitude is on international platforms. And the fact that Belarusians are treated differently now than, for example, Russia — that's also because of what happened in 2020.

The fact that we are currently in forced emigration, but such an option generally exists — this is also a consequence of that approach. The fact that we can do something at all now — this is also a consequence of those things that were done."

Maksim also shared his way of checking the sincerity of those who now criticize the actions of the headquarters and protesters.

"After the criticism that was leveled at me, at other people who worked in 2020: that everything was done wrong, we should have done this, we should have done that... I then ask a control shot to the head, the last question: how do you personally perceive the summer of 2020?

And all these critics, everyone who tells me that something should have been done differently, they say: "Well, it was super cool. These are the brightest feelings, it's the rise of the nation." That's all I need. If a person feels that way, it doesn't matter what they say next."

Why Znak was not at the first press conference after his release

Recalling the press conference that took place on the second day after his release, Maksim Znak notes that the released political prisoners discussed among themselves the proposal to participate in it:

"We agreed that [since] negotiations are currently underway with the American side regarding the release of our comrades who remained there... We knew exactly how all this works in the administration of institutions and other employees. They will definitely watch the first words that will be spoken, and that every careless word can very significantly affect the fate of other people."

According to Znak, it was decided that only those who were better prepared would go to the press conference, and the most painful topics — possible torture, sanctions, war — would not be raised for now. They could be spoken about later, when "there would be a better psychological state and a more filled informational field."

As Maksim admits, he personally could have spoken at this press conference, and everything was prepared for it. However, in the end, he himself suggested not going on stage, as there were already several representatives of the former headquarters — Viktar Babaryka himself and Maria Kalesnikava. In his opinion, the presence of another person from the same team would lead to obvious imbalance. Therefore, he decided to stay in the hall:

"I simply said: 'It will look bad, let me just sit here and wait.'"

At the same time, Znak emphasizes:

"Now everyone says: 'You're such a good fellow.' I say that I'm not a good fellow, I sat in the hall, and if I were on stage, I would also adhere to the agreements that were made with all the prisoners. This doesn't mean that after that you can't say what you think. It just means that at that moment it was done that way. Maybe we should have done it differently, but that's what we agreed on."

The incredible night of liberation

Recalling the story of his release, Maksim remembered that the day before, a new cellmate had suddenly been placed in his cell. Znak thought that this meant there would be no quick release and he would have to meet the New Year in captivity. They got acquainted in the usual prison manner: greeted each other, gave names, articles, and terms. The cellmate said he was due to be released in 2028 and asked when Znak was getting out.

Maksim recalls that he joked: "It's a situation here — either in 2030, or tomorrow. (...) Maybe the day after tomorrow."

The cellmate laughed, and later, when they were going to bed, asked again if Maksim could really get out tomorrow. He replied: "Well, yes, I'm getting out tomorrow, why not? If it works out, it will be fine."

"At 2:45 AM, they wake us up, all these people from the administration, officers, controllers come in. They come in according to the regulations, with batons hanging on their shoulders. Because, well, we are dangerous, we are in PKT (cell-type premises - NN), special control measures are needed there. (...) When they came in together, filling the entire cell, I still managed to look at my new cellmate and catch his gaze. There was horror in his eyes."

As Znak explains, the new cellmate apparently thought they were both about to be punished.

"He already knew that I had a certain political history, and it was obvious that he was very worried about being in such a position where he couldn't help but be implicated now. And they tell him: 'Yes, now you calmly, quietly go to sleep.' He calmly, quietly lay down, but didn't sleep. And they tell me: 'And you, get ready.'"

Thus, Maksim says, it became clear that he was being released. For the cellmate, according to Znak, it became a psychological trauma:

"And I also catch his gaze. And in that gaze, it's very difficult to say what feeling it is. The feeling is like: 'You scoundrel! What are you doing to me?' Just a moment ago, the man was getting out in 2028, I in 2030... And then this joke about tomorrow suddenly became true." It's psychological trauma. I hope everything will be fine [with him], but that's how it happened."

Where to look for the national idea

Maksim Znak advises those looking for a national idea to refer to the introduction that the classic of Belarusian literature Frantsishak Bahushevich wrote for his book "Dudka Belaruskaya" (Belarusian Dudka).

"Everything is written there. In the preface to "Dudka Belaruskaya" there are three main points. First: he writes that our language "is not some peasant language, but as good as Spanish, German, French." (...) And the second point is the most famous quote: "(...) do not abandon the Belarusian language, lest you die." This idea is such a medically precise parallel, that if the language is already gone, then nothing else will help."

Maksim considers the third aspect of Bahushevich's idea particularly relevant for modern Belarusians in emigration.

"His third thought is where Belarus is located. Wherever there is the Belarusian language. Now it has turned out that many Belarusians are geographically not within Belarus, but if you read the preface to "Dudka Belaruskaya", nothing prevents one from believing that Belarus is wherever you are. And therefore, to do everything necessary for this Belarus to flourish."

The most difficult choice

Answering a question about the most difficult choice he had to make in captivity, Maksim recalls an incident that occurred during his stay in the PKT, when he was incommunicado. At some point, an investigator came to him and stated that he wanted to ask questions about the case: allegedly, a woman had written him letters, and he needed to explain who she was.

Znak realized that a new wave of persecution was beginning — when people start being tried even for simple support of political prisoners, for corresponding with them. Then he refused to talk to the investigator and sign any papers, even a document refusing to sign.

"It was such an interesting moment. He says: 'Well, sign that you refuse.' I say: 'No. Whatever I do, you will use it to put good people in prison. So I will not cooperate with you in any way.'"

However, the truly difficult choice had to be made after that. As Maksim explains, he had a notebook in which he kept a kind of "accounting" of correspondence: he recorded the names and addresses of people who wrote him letters, and noted how many letters he received and how many he replied to.

When Maksim realized that these lists could become a reason for prosecuting people at liberty, he made a radical decision.

"This notebook was very dear to me, because it contained my entire correspondence history. And the most difficult and hard choice was then, when I decided to destroy it. I destroyed it there, so that it would no longer exist, so that no one could read it. Of course, they have all this information, but if it was with me, I felt responsible for it. And I destroyed it."

What surprised him after his release

Maksim admits that after his release, he was struck by the scale of fear that permeated Belarusian society:

"It seems to me that a lot has changed in this sense. Because even some of my friends say: 'Listen, we are very happy for you, but... but even meeting for coffee — that's already, well, there's a question.' Or friends from Belarus... I don't bother anyone with my messages, because I know that if they don't write, it means they probably have some fears."

As Maksim argues, he now evaluates differently the support he received in the first years of his imprisonment.

"When I now look from 2026 to 2020, to 2021, back then I was simply grateful for the support. But now, to all those who came, to all those who came out, to all those who wrote letters, to all those who organized these actions... This is also an act of bravery, because they risked no less than all of us. And they had no obligations to do it, they did it for me, and that is very, very, very touching."

Great-grandfather's story

During the interview, Maksim Znak mentioned the tragic fate of his great-grandfather, who became a victim of Stalinist repressions. According to him, his great-grandfather was arrested and shot in 1937. There is a possibility that he was buried in Kurapaty.

Maksim says that, according to documents, his great-grandfather was held in the Chervyen prison, and taken to Minsk for execution. The exact burial place is unknown. Only the date: "the sentence was carried out in 1937 on November 11."

Later, the great-grandfather was rehabilitated. At a certain time, relatives could review his criminal case in the KGB. Part of the materials were hidden — including denunciations and documents about the people who handled the case. However, the family was shown interrogation protocols and photographs.

"We saw that there were drops of blood on these sheets, and in the photographs, we see that he was beaten. We read the questions they asked him, and that he never signed that he was guilty of being a Polish spy, that he spoke ill of Soviet power."

Znak says that the flywheel of repressions engulfed his great-grandfather's entire family. The great-grandfather had three more brothers — they were called "the Kalaski brothers." They lived near the village of Nezhauka in the Chervyen district and had farmsteads there. The land was once bought by their father Ivan, and the brothers gradually built four farms on it. When life improved, the brothers even jointly bought an oil mill for the village.

However, it was at that time that the repressions began. The eldest brother was immediately exiled to the Urals. With the others, according to Maksim, "they also didn't particularly stand on ceremony." Great-grandfather Aliaksandr did not wait for arrest: he left his property and moved to Smalyavichy, where he began working as a carpenter.

There he built a new house. According to family legend, the house appealed to an operative. After that, the criminal case appeared.

What gives hope

To Aliaksandr Ivulin's question about the source of Znak's optimism, Maksim replied that, despite frequent talks about history repeating itself, there is still a gradual movement towards humanistic values in the world. According to him, changes are occurring even in countries where there are no strong democratic traditions. Therefore, his optimism, he says, has certain grounds.

At the same time, Znak admits that optimism is also a practical choice for a person who wants to live, not suffer.

"Imagine, if we are pessimistic, it will be so sad. And if optimistic — then 'it didn't work out, next time it will!' (...) It seems to me that the suffering from not succeeding ends much faster than the constant suffering that nothing will ever work out. If you live with that thought every day, for example, for 10 years, then you have 10 years of suffering.

If you did something for 10 years with inspiration, you have 10 years of happiness. And then if it didn't work out — well, it varies for everyone. But they say that no matter what happens, in three months we will be happy again. This study is well-known, where they researched both those who won the lottery and those who were hit by a train. In about three months, their normal state of affairs is approximately the same. So I'm for being happy, and if it doesn't work out — well, be a little sad, and then be happy again."

• 17
• 1
• 0
• 1
• 0
• 1
• 0
• 5