Konstantin Kaveryn, the host of the morning show «Obychnoye Utro» (Ordinary Morning), in a new episode of TOK, spoke about how his attitude towards national identity has changed in recent years.
During the conversation, Nastassia Roud asked Konstantin Kaveryn whom he considers a hero or heroine of Belarus. Kaveryn unhesitatingly named Zianon Pazniak.
«Zianon Pazniak, who unearthed Kurapaty. Well, he wasn't the only one [who unearthed it], of course, but still, for me, it was a very powerful step in understanding myself as a Belarusian. In the matter of this self-identity. And it was a bold, courageous step. So, for me, Zianon Pazniak is undoubtedly a hero,» —
Konstantin noted, adding that he doesn't agree with all of the politician's statements:
«It seems to me that sometimes he says things with which I completely disagree.»
But these disagreements, according to Kaveryn, do not outweigh what Pazniak did for Belarus.
«For this deed of his, for this step forward for Belarus, I deeply love and respect him. My current attitude towards Russians and my conviction that Russians purposefully destroyed us as Belarusians, as a nation — Zianon Stanislavavich's influence on my current position is incredibly significant. And I thank him for that. Because all of this is confirmed by facts.
I love him very much. And despite some of his statements (…) and a religiosity that is unclear to me, I admire him,» — Kaveryn assured.
«Whether you want it or not, circumstances force you to feel more Belarusian»
Roud recalled that about five years ago, in an interview with Mikita Melkaziorau, Kaveryn said he didn't strongly feel his national identity and perceived himself more as a citizen of the world. Now, as their conversation revealed, his attitude towards this has significantly changed.
«How did you come to the idea that one must be Belarusian? Is it impossible not to be Belarusian in today's world?» — Nastassia asked.
«And why did you decide that I came to the idea that one must be Belarusian?» — Kaveryn disagreed.
«It seems to me that you were talking about something similar. That you feel more Belarusian than before,» — Nastassia clarified.
«Well, that doesn't mean one must be Belarusian. I feel more Belarusian than before, but that doesn't mean one must be Belarusian, —
Konstantin expressed his position and explained:
— If I wasn't involved in this work of mine — I don't know, journalistic, showman, call it what you will — and if I were a quiet IT specialist, I would probably have said the same thing I told Mikita. That all these national things of yours... I don't care about them.»
In that case, according to Konstantin, it would be more important for him to have the freedom to choose where to live and what language to speak.
«I want to live and work on the Cape Verde islands, or even better, on Curaçao. To speak English, Spanish, Polish, Belarusian, Russian — whichever way is convenient for me. And to hell with your borders.»
However, the circumstances in which Kaveryn now finds himself, he says, forced him to look differently at his own national affiliation.
«In the context in which I exist, I believe that, unfortunately... whether you want it or not, circumstances force you to feel more Belarusian. (...) I am a little more Belarusian than I was in 2020. Probably so. But is it important? Is it essential?»
«I wouldn't mind being absorbed by an empire»
Roud noted that today, national identity plays a significant role in the countries of the region. She cited the rise of nationalist sentiments in Poland, Lithuania, and Ukraine, which united to resist Russia.
Kaveryn, in response, admitted that he prefers the American model, where national identity is not necessarily tied to a person's origin.
«I really like the American model. There isn't... Who is an American? (...) And that's how I want it. I want to be an American-immigrant.»
However, in the case of Belarus and other countries in the region, he recognizes the necessity of national self-determination.
«If you don't realize now that you are Belarusian, just as a Ukrainian doesn't realize he is Ukrainian, or a Lithuanian or a Pole — that he is Polish or Lithuanian, then, of course, an empire will absorb you.»
Such an «absorption» in itself, Kaveryn continued, would not scare him if it were, for example, the British Empire.
«I wouldn't mind being absorbed by an empire... The British one, for example. I would happily speak English if that empire brought me an active constitution, laws, my rights — fundamental ones, and no one would violate them.»
In such an imaginary state, Kaveryn would want protection from lawlessness, the ability to live, work, and earn freely, so that nothing would be «taken from him and nothing demanded in return.»
«But you just need to take this paper: "You are a subject of the Queen." There! (shows two thumbs up — NN) And to hell with that Belarus, and Ukraine, and everything else for me. British Empire. The whole world — British Empire. That's what I'd want.»
However, Konstantin calls such a model impossible. In the real world, according to him, national identity becomes a necessity.
«If you don't identify yourself, you will perish in the trenches against those who did identify themselves. And they will wipe their feet on you besides,» — Kaveryn argues.
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Пад кіраўніцтвам Зянона Пазьняка група дэпутатаў апазыцыі Беларускага Народнага Фронта напісала тэкст Дэкларацыі аб Незалежнасці, распрацавала пакет Законаў для Незалежнай Беларусі і прымусіла камуністычную большасьць у Вярхоўным Савеце прагаласаваць за Незалежнасць.
И услышал, и понял. И вы послушайте и поймёте. Кто наш враг, кто нас уничтожал, почему Россия ,как империя, будет всегда уничтожать Украину и Беларусь.
Единственный шанс это если империя развалится и станет меньше, тогда у неё не будет достаточного количества населения и материальных ресурсов, чтобы нападать на другие народы.
А пока Россия существует как империя, от неё всегда придётся защищаться.
А для этого надо в первую очередь осознать, что мы не русские, не один с ними народ, увидеть, что они хотят нас переделать в русских, ограбить, отобрать нашу землю, наши предприятия, недра, бизнесы. И командовать нами, что нам делать на нашей земле.