"History is full of surprises, and not all of them are unpleasant." Writer Kristina Sabaliauskaitė reflected on the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Belarus, and Russia

Thanks to Siarhiej Šupa's translation (Viasna Publishing House), Belarusian readers can now familiarize themselves with all four volumes of the Vilnius saga "Silva rerum" — a novel about the life of the gentry in the 17th-18th centuries. This is not only one of the best books in Lithuanian history but also a bestseller, highly acclaimed in Poland and Latvia.

Writer Kristina Sabaliauskaitė is the author of historical novels and one of Lithuania's most influential cultural figures, whose opinion is sought after and listened to.

Павялічыць

Photo: Belsat

— At the presentation of the "Silva Rerum" translation at the "Belarusian House" in Vilnius in early March, readers asked you questions in Belarusian, and you answered in Polish. It seemed you understood almost everything. Had you encountered the Belarusian language before to understand it a little?

— Yes, indeed, I understood almost everything, and that was very pleasant. If you are fluent in Polish and Russian, it's not difficult — similar Slavic structures, recognizable word roots. Many Poles also understand Belarusian quite well. It's just a pity that I can't express my thoughts in Belarusian, so I had to speak in Polish — I apologize for that, but I hope the audience understood me better.

Павялічыць

— Readers were surprised to learn that you descend from the Narwojsz family — the main characters of "Silva Rerum". Could you please tell us about this?

— Yes, it turned out to be a funny situation — during the meeting, I was asked if I was in contact with modern descendants of the Narwojsz family. Since my mother was in the hall at that moment, there was no escaping it, I had to admit. These are my ancestors on my mother's side; we know the continuous genealogy of this branch back to the early 16th century, and we have some preserved documents and artifacts, but the surname changed — a woman's genealogical fate. Perhaps it's good, as it provided a certain distance and self-irony regarding family stories and anecdotes.

Павялічыць

— You said that there would be no continuation of "Silva Rerum" because you don't like the 19th century. Why? Because of the Russian occupation or for other reasons?

— Because of its aesthetics and worldview — it is too exalted, romanticized, and at the same time — hypocritical, puritanical for me. For me, it is the century of empires, police states, pseudo-national myths, bureaucracy. I don't feel it as well; it doesn't captivate me aesthetically as much as the Baroque era (Kristina Sabaliauskaitė is an art historian, — "Salidarnasts").

— Today, among Belarusians, one can encounter very different views on the history of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. How do you view the history of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania — and the role of the ancestors of Belarusians within it?

— A single, common view of history is characteristic only of authoritarian regimes, so a pluralism of views in itself is nothing bad. The only important thing is how scientifically substantiated these views are.

I always say that where the desired begins to be taken for the real, science ends and ideology begins. And an ideological interpretation of history is already nothing good. Therefore, I try to look at the history of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania primarily as a scholar.

When approaching a specific historical source, I try to do so without preconceived notions. Like an archaeologist starting excavations — because it's unknown what might be found: perhaps a treasure of gold coins, or perhaps a site of mass killings. Historical truth can sometimes be unpleasant, but a mature consciousness must be able to accept it.

It should be remembered that the mass memory of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was systematically erased throughout the 19th century — the tsarist empire pursued a policy of divide et impera in the occupied territories, striving to pit Poles against Lithuanians, and the peoples living in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania — against each other.

Furthermore, already in Kościuszko's time, it was stated in the words of the Third Statute that "a Lithuanian is one who loves freedom and respects the Statute of Lithuania," meaning that Lithuanian identity was political, civic, legal, and Catholic, rather than ethno-linguistic.

A strong political, civic identity was precisely what hindered the occupiers, especially in such a vast territory as the former Grand Duchy of Lithuania.

A good question is — who shall we consider the ancestors of Belarusians? From my ancestors, letters written in Polish remain (it's hard to say if all of them spoke Lithuanian — I only know this about Franciszek Narwojsz and some later relatives); they owned lands scattered from Samogitia to Ashmyany (meaning — also on the territory of modern Belarus), but considered themselves Lithuanians.

So, can we, for example, speak of members of my family who owned one of the estates in the late 18th — early 19th century on the territory of modern Belarus as "ancestors of Belarusians"? Because at that time they considered themselves Lithuanians and had no idea what that identity — "Belarusian" — was.

I am convinced that we must respect people of the past, and when we speak of their identity — we cannot force it into the mold of our present-day understanding and imagination. We must consider them to be what they considered themselves to be, how they called themselves.

Therefore, in this regard, the matriculation books of European universities from the 17th-18th centuries are very telling, in which students from the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth very clearly indicated whom they considered themselves to be: Polonus, Lituanus, Borussus (residents of Prussia — S.) or someone else. It would be interesting to investigate when the self-identification "Belarusian" first appears in sources (not in the sense of territory, but in the sense of nationality).

Moreover, identity, even within a single family, can change over time, and that is normal. Once, I had to participate in a rather comical discussion in Poland — one of its participants claimed that Emilia Plater, if she were alive today, would inevitably identify herself as Polish, not Lithuanian.

This made me laugh — one of my best friends is a descendant of the Plater family, and therefore it is well known that at the end of the 19th century, the family's views diverged: one branch remained Polish-speaking and indeed later identified with Poles, while the other branch of the family became completely "Litwomans" and heralds of the Lithuanian national revival — from them later came Vladas Putvinskis (founder of the Riflemen's movement) and Marija Putvinskaitė (wife of the artist Antanas Žmuidzinavičius).

Therefore, speculating today about whom Emilia Plater would consider herself to be is complete nonsense, complete ahistoricism.

I emphasize — let's respect people of the past, let them be who they considered themselves to be. Let's not make ideological scarecrows out of them according to our current understanding of identity.

— My mother comes from Karelichy district (near Navahrudak), where people famous in Vilnius were born: Jan Czeczot, Ignacy Domeyko, Jan Bułhak. Which places in Belarus have you visited, being interested in history, and under what circumstances?

— Unfortunately, due to political circumstances, the last time I was in Belarus was in 2013 — I had a unique opportunity to visit Nesvizh, Mir, Minsk. I was writing "Silva Rerum III" at that time, so it was an invaluable experience that proved very useful for the book. Additionally, in the last years of the 20th century, when I worked at the National Museum, together with colleagues, I visited Navahrudak, Lida, places associated with Adam Mickiewicz, and had contacts with Belarusian museum workers — at that time, an exhibition about "Pan Tadeusz" and the circumstances of its creation was planned.

— Why, in your opinion, is small Lithuania independent today, while Belarus, which is several times larger, is subservient to Russia in many respects?

— I think that Lithuania, with its capital Vilnius, as the successor to the statehood of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, is probably still the main bearer of this gene of freedom, which was not afraid and broke free in 1990. From Russia, we experienced the "divide and conquer" tactic, not once — in the 19th century, in 1940, and in the post-war period, when through repression and deportations, stratocide of Lithuanians (the destruction of the most educated, most civic part of society), social engineering and brainwashing were carried out, but, it seems to me, even our Soviet party bosses always wanted to be as independent as possible and, through clenched teeth, still hated the Russians in their own way.

And what is there to love about Russia? Such a vast country, so rich in both natural resources and human talents, yet throughout its history, its elite, wallowing in vulgar luxury, plunders everything so thoroughly that the people constantly live in poverty and squalor. Therefore, to keep its masses calm, Russia constantly needs an imaginary external enemy and war: it constantly has to aggressively interfere with neighbors (and not only), meddle in the affairs of other countries, and spend enormous funds on this, instead of directing this money to its ordinary people, putting internal affairs in order, and living prosperously.

Russia is a shameful country that does not value its people and is incapable of putting its own house in order. And wherever it conquers — it ruins everything, throws it back into poverty, laziness, drunkenness, and backwardness, desecrates and destroys.

Such a way of life has always been alien to Lithuanians, and Lithuanians, perhaps, are historically less subservient to any authority.

— What associations does Belarus evoke in you?

— First and foremost — a sense of that very cultural distinctiveness and commonality of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, and, I think, our dialogue during the meeting, the way Belarusian readers read my books and say that this is "their own" history — bears witness to this. It is often a shared history, shared sensations, shared feelings.

The second association is very sad, due to what has been happening in your country for long decades. I believe that the hardworking and creative people of Belarus deserve freedom, democracy, and a life like normal Europeans.

— When I was in Jašiūnai (Šalčininkai district of Vilnius county), I met people who are citizens of Lithuania, feel Polish, and speak Belarusian. How should this be evaluated? Can this be considered a legacy of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, or is it something else?

— As I have already said — all these historically layered components do not interfere with each other. A citizen of Lithuania who feels Polish and speaks a dialect of the Polish language, different from that in the Republic of Poland, which reminds you of the Belarusian language — I personally have no problems with this. It is important that such a person is loyal to the Republic of Lithuania, sees it as a country where they feel good, which they want to build together with all citizens, and also knows the state Lithuanian language, so that they can fully function in society.

— Russia's war against Ukraine continues. In your opinion, what will the future of the countries in our region (Baltic states, Belarus, Ukraine) look like in 50 years?

— Well, in 50 years I will certainly no longer be in this world, so it's hard for me to predict. I am not a clairvoyant or a political scientist.

As a person professionally interested in history, I can only say one thing — history sometimes is full of surprises, and not all of them are necessarily unpleasant — the revival of the Lithuanian state in 1990 and the enormous progress we have made, today's high standard of living in Lithuania (we have probably never lived richer) bear witness to this.

Furthermore, for many years I have repeated that freedom is not a fact, but a process that must be maintained by daily actions and decisions. Therefore, one must protect one's freedom at all costs and always be ready to defend it.

Павялічыць

— Your ancestors lived in Vilnius, you grew up there and are an honorary citizen of this city. Which three places in Vilnius do you like the most?

— I infinitely love the 360-degree view from the balcony of St. John's Bell Tower (part of the Vilnius University ensemble. — "Salidarnasts") — it truly takes one's breath away; from there, one can clearly see different confessional parts of Vilnius, different styles, and when I look, every street is connected for me with my personal adventures and memories. St. George's Church — though no longer active, is very dear to me because entire generations of my family prayed there, and, most likely, it was there that the secret marriage of Barbara Radziwiłł and Sigismund Augustus took place. And my home, which is always pleasant to return to.

— In your opinion, what is the meaning of life?

— One of my favorite poems is "Reading Marcus Aurelius" by Tomas Venclova. It is so profound, the Lithuanian language in it is so beautiful and perfect, that it is probably impossible to adequately translate it into other languages. Just for such poetry, it is worth learning the Lithuanian language.

Every time I read it, tears come to my eyes, because the entire poem is precisely about stoicism and the meaning of life in the face of eternity. And it contains these words:

However much is given to you, that much is given. There is only a harsh duty —

Not to seek meaning, not to humble oneself, and not to complain.

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