"About 70% of Russian visitors turned out to be vatniks." An ex-guide from the WWII museum, detained by his own tour group, is now popular in Warsaw — we spoke with him

Later came dismissal and a period of working as a self-employed guide. However, increased interest in people of his profession was already on the horizon. In August 2022, in Minsk, tour guide Sviatlana Hryshkevich was detained "for distorting historical facts." The KGB also visited Yuriy Kuushynau. Today, he is a popular Belarusian-speaking guide in Warsaw with a large portfolio of tours to suit every taste.

We spoke with him about what interested the security forces, how director Varapayau spoiled the WWII museum, how much a guide earns in Poland, and what historical museums Belarus lacks.

"The KGB was interested in the names of history faculty graduates who might be fighting in Ukraine"

"Nasha Niva": After your second detention, you managed to work until the end of your contract at the WWII Museum, leading tours, but in 2022 you had to leave abruptly due to attention from the KGB — how did that manifest?

Yury Kuushynau: After I served my days (in detention), everything seemed to calm down. At the museum, they did ask me to resign voluntarily immediately after the second detention — the director shouted and roared, but I refused. I had a position, if you want, then dismiss me yourselves.

After that, I started giving tours, and didn't particularly think about which historical topics might be dangerous and which safe. For example, I created a route related to the 1863 uprising; this was already 2021, when we traveled to Svistlach, where a bust of Kalinouski stands. I developed many different routes around Belarus, but then the general case involving tour guides affected me too.

I was aware, before me, they had already visited Ms. Valeria Charnamortsava, and someone else. But I didn't think of leaving until the very last moment, until October 20, 2022, when they came to my workplace at the Money Museum — they took me from there, searched my registered address, and then went to the apartment my girlfriend and I were renting.

They told me that my status — either accomplice or witness — depended entirely on me. Since I studied history, the KGB was interested in the names of history faculty graduates who might be fighting in Ukraine. And in general, they told me to think about how I could be useful.

They told me to sign a paper about cooperation (such is the Belarusian reality), and then I would be released. They encouraged me: "You'll go around, watch various cultural events, I'll call you, and you'll tell me what's happening there." But on the same day, my girlfriend and I packed our bags, all our savings, and went to Moscow, and then to Georgia. And from there, we applied for a humanitarian Polish visa.

"We need it in Russian. We are from Mogilev, Russia is closer to us"

"NN": How comfortable were you working at the Museum of the Great Patriotic War recently, given your views? After all, it always seemed the most ideological.

YK: Honestly, not very much since 2019, when a new director arrived (in March 2019, Uladzimir Varapayau was appointed director of the museum. In 2026, he was replaced by Ryman Rum — NN). But before that, one could say, our research department had a golden age in terms of a free atmosphere. Guides had no control over their routes; they could maneuver quite freely. And on the historical basis of WWII, they could add certain details to the narrative, depending on the visitor's personality.

The director himself asked me to conduct tours in Belarusian for ambassadors from Ukraine, for example. Specifically me, because, however paradoxical it may be, I was practically the main guide among all who could conduct tours in Belarusian.

And I always started in Belarusian, although among local groups, there were those who said: "We need it in Russian. We are from Mogilev, Russia is closer to us."

With Varapayau's arrival, everything started to deteriorate. His behavior reminded me of Trump. He meddled everywhere, believed that tours should be like theatrical productions.

He was formerly a conductor in the Song and Dance Ensemble of the Armed Forces. And he was very much that kind of military man, in the worst sense of the word.

Although during 2020, when marches took place near the stele, many (now former) employees came out of the museum, photographing it all. Some joined the protesters; everything was perceived very positively. But then soldiers began to be stationed near us, and the museum was fenced with barbed wire — that was the defense.

Overall, we had a very adequate team.

However, in my department, one woman worked, not even pro-government, but pro-Russian. She was almost 50 years old, and she also worked on the Stalin Line. So, when I returned after the first days (of detention), I saw that on my calendar, which simply said "Budzma" in red letters on a white background, a green line had been drawn. Well, my colleague admitted that she did it, specifically.

"NN": Was it under Varapayau that you actively started dressing in military uniform?

YK: Yes, it increased under him. And sometimes it was such nonsense: you go and introduce yourself to people as a research fellow, and at the same time, you're in a Red Army uniform... It's illogical for such situations.

Or Varapayau came up with the idea for us to recite poems during the tours. Later, of course, they managed to convey to him that we are still a museum, not a theater.

"About 70% of Russian visitors turned out to be vatniks"

"NN": Were you informed during your work about "red lines" that shouldn't be crossed? Like: we don't focus on the fact that Hitler and Stalin were pursuing their interests before WWII.

YK: There were certain employees (mostly older, including Afghan war veterans) who just really liked to bring everything back to a general Soviet narrative. For example, retired Colonel Valery Nadtachaev — he himself always wore a SMERSH badge, the Soviet counterintelligence.

When I led private groups, I always told the story as it was. Without embellishment, because sometimes in the historical references themselves, everything is written to simply evoke tears from heroic deeds: "partisan Ryma Kunko rushed into the attack, leading her comrades-in-arms." In reality, it wasn't all so beautiful and romantic.

But sometimes the department head would approach me in advance and ask that a certain group was expected, and they wanted to hear and see this. And then certain points had to be omitted.

Traditionally, we had many guests from China and Russia. Of course, among the latter, there were also so-called "vatniks".

My colleague, who was talking about the liberation of Minsk, literally said "our capital was liberated." And she was immediately corrected: "What are you talking about, girl? We all had one capital — Moscow." In principle, about 70% of Russian visitors turned out to be vatniks.

"NN": This concentration exclusively on the heroism of the Second World War as the main historical achievement — does this come from today's authorities, or do you see other reasons here?

YK: In my opinion, the state's policy has indeed made a great contribution here. Since 1995, Belarus has been entirely linked to the history of the Soviet Union. Because Lukashenka considers himself a Soviet person in the full sense of the word. And Soviet for him means great. The same with the war.

Yes, the war is a reflection of our history, it involves great sacrifices, but the victory and the history of the war itself have already turned into a cult. With some incomprehensible tinsel and arrogance.

Although we still celebrate November 7th, what can I say. The most surprising public holiday for me that exists in Belarus.

Павялічыць

"A museum of the repressive history of the USSR must definitely be created here"

"NN": What historical museums are missing in Belarus?

YK: Not long ago, I helped organize an event at the Museum of Free Belarus (in Warsaw) about understanding totalitarian heritage. A museum of that kind — of the repressive history of the USSR — I believe, must definitely be created here. Maybe a separate museum for Kurapaty, as that is the most painful topic. We haven't had a public condemnation of those events or a broad discussion. Nazism was condemned, but all this has not yet been dealt with. And this, without exaggeration, affected 100% of Belarus.

Regarding earlier periods of history, it seems to me, one could create a museum dedicated to uprisings (or a specific uprising), because we had plenty of rebels. Kościuszko, Kalinouski, Plater — they fought precisely for equality, for this land. But abroad, their heritage is cared for more.

As a resident of Minsk, I would also really like to visit a full-fledged museum of Minsk that would show the city's history through various objects. For example, you enter, and you have statistics on how the population changed, how the borders changed, symbols, postcards, factory products, and so on.

"NN": The heated reactions to Leonid Parfyonov's statement, in which he asserted that there is nothing Belarusian about Marc Chagall, have not yet subsided — how do you, as a historian, react to this?

YK: I completely agree with Mikita Monich here, who very aptly wrote that it's a maximal simplification to consider that if it's on the territory of the Russian Empire, then it's Russian. That is, on the one hand, there was a Pale of Settlement, you expelled Jews, and on the other hand, if a Jew is popular, then he is already Russian.

Chagall strongly identified with Vitebsk. Yes, of course, he may not have called himself Belarusian, but he would have even less called himself Russian.

Chagall is a Jewish artist from Belarus who loved Belarus, where he lived, very much. And his art, very distinctive, does not fit into what representatives of the Russian art school were painting at that time.

"NN": How do you feel today in the context of being forced to live in emigration, although your entire focus was on Belarus internally?

YK: Sometimes, when you think about it, it becomes very upsetting. I didn't plan to leave; I wanted to do everything for the place where I was born. When I became a guide, I started to feel Minsk and Belarus anew. I wanted this place to develop, for tourists to come to us, and for me to be able to reveal our diverse secrets to them.

It angered and still angers me that I studied, graduated from university, led tours, and now I can't even just visit my parents.

However, of course, I don't understand how I could work in today's Belarus. Here, I have no restrictions at all, but there I would always have to think about boundaries. Although, maybe I would adapt, like others.

Павялічыць

"Those people who are now in power are the main anti-heroes of Belarusian history"

"NN": General Muraveika, recently transferred to Lukashenka's Administration, believes that today the situation around Belarus is even more complicated than it was in June 1941, on the eve of the war. What can you compare today's atmosphere to?

YK: I want to say that, in general, it's very bad and upsetting that Belarus has become a co-aggressor. In the long term, this will be very difficult by all measures, although for now, the Belarusian GDP, thanks to the war, is growing a little, and industry has revived. But we all understand that these are investments into nothing, into weapons, and one day they will just disappear.

"NN": Given current history and the past, who is the main Belarusian anti-hero for you?

YK: It seems to me, those people who are now in power. With their policy, which ultimately led us to dependence on Russia.

"NN": And who is the main positive superhero?

YK: This is very difficult, like naming the best book or film. I consider every Belarusian (man/woman) who cares about Belarusianness a hero. Those who, in today's extremely difficult conditions, create Belarusian content in Belarus. And this, unfortunately, is getting harder to do. Cultural figures, bloggers, and patrons, thanks to whom the already much-suffered architectural and cultural heritage, neglected by the state, is preserved. Parents who fight for Belarusian-language education in Belarus.

The same can be said about emigration — despite the problems of settling abroad, many Belarusians sacrifice time, resources, and efforts for Belarusian projects, support compatriots, create space for Belarusians, and never forget their Homeland. They take their children to Belarusian schools, write letters to political prisoners, donate to help Belarusians, and engage in public activities. Honestly, this deserves great respect.

"NN": Some critics believe that today Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya is purely an emigre story, like the Rada of the BPR and Ivonka Survilla. How do you see this?

YK: Here and now, I believe it's not yet purely an emigre story. But, unfortunately, the direction is probably heading that way.

It would seem that more than five years have passed since the events of 2020, but in a historical context, this is a trifle. The history of the BPR, very significant and important for Belarus, is concluded. But the history that began in August 2020 is not over. Rather, it has entered another phase — a very dramatic one for Belarusians, when two countries, so to speak, emerged: an emigre one and a "mainland" one. I am by no means exaggerating the scale of the rupture between them, but this is a natural consequence of such massive forced emigration.

Our government in exile (and political figures in general) faces a difficult task — not to completely descend into purely emigre representation. And for this, it is important, as much as possible, to be interested in how Belarus and Belarusians live, not to fall out of the agenda.

Here [in emigration], our culture, politics, and musicians can develop, while in Belarus much is done underground. This is the hardest task — to find some connection, to interest people within the country, to win them over to their side — a pro-European Belarus with the Belarusian language in the family of European nations.

"NN": How do you envision an ideal Belarus in terms of internal and external organization?

YK: In our situation, with our history and with an aggressive neighbor who uses its language and culture as a weapon during the extermination and subjugation of other peoples, I believe that the sole state language must be Belarusian. Of course, in private life, everyone is free to speak as they wish; there should be no violence or coercion here. But if Belarusian is made the sole state language, the residents themselves will Belarusianize within 5-10 years.

Politically, ideally, I see a parliamentary republic. And civilizationally, it is very important for us to return to the ancestral European vector. Not necessarily directly into the European Union, but the European path must be clear.

Павялічыць

"During the season, I can earn over $2500 a month"

"NN": Which tours in Poland are most in demand for you?

YK: By default, any guide can say that the most popular tours are panoramic ones, through the old town, to palace and park complexes, for those visiting your city for the first time. All tourists from any country primarily want to see the so-called basic attractions.

For those who have already been to Warsaw, second in popularity are tours of the Warsaw Praga district. Questions about the ghetto are also frequent, as this topic is extensive in the Polish capital — after all, it was home to the largest ghetto, where an uprising also took place.

Among Belarusians, naturally, tours of "Belarusian Warsaw" are very popular; they are often ordered by IT companies or by children for their parents who come to visit. But, by the way, Ukrainians are also interested in "Belarusian Warsaw."

Near Warsaw, I personally wanted to develop the Nieborów direction, because the Radziwill palace is located there (which was also owned by Michał Ogiński), containing many treasures from Nesvizh, and they have been preserved. As has the palace itself, including its interior.

"NN": What's the maximum a Belarusian guide can earn in Warsaw today in a month?

YK: Depending on the season. In December, although it's cold, but with Christmas and New Year, many tourists arrive. After the winter holidays, a dead season follows. November is also not particularly successful.

But during the peak season, in summer, you can earn over 10,000 zlotys (about $2500 — NN) a month. Of course, experience and my established recognition as a guide also play a role.

It's important that I continue to enjoy this activity myself. Of everything I do (teaching Belarusian history in school, writing articles), this is my absolute favorite, honestly.

"In Poland, 90% of the Radziwill heritage sites have been preserved. In Belarus, maybe 30%"

"NN": What could we learn from Poles in terms of preserving historical memory?

YK: There's indeed a lot to learn from Poles. Starting with material heritage — I always show a map in Nieborów, in the Radziwill palace, that includes Belarus, Lithuania, Ukraine, Poland, and Germany. And it shows the Radziwill possessions (fully preserved, partially preserved, or completely disappeared). And in Poland, 90% of these objects have been preserved. In Belarus, it's perhaps 30%.

Or you can compare the lists of historical and cultural values themselves: ours is many times smaller. And often heritage is restored and lives thanks to private individuals, although the state should be doing this.

The second point is, of course, the attitude towards one's own history. Of course, Poles present it from their perspective (like representatives of any other country). But here, they document and recall moments from various historical periods — the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, the interwar period, the partitions, and how Poland was created. Moreover, all this is revealed in many aspects — they constantly animate history by holding exhibitions and organizing cultural projects.

Poles clearly understand who they are and feel themselves masters of their land. They will clearly speak about Mickiewicz and Kościuszko, without thinking about who might dislike it and why. The same goes for Lithuanians. In our country, unfortunately, there is a closed-mindedness, an obsession (according to the state agenda) with glorifying a certain period of history — the Soviet one. That is the flagship now. Belarus supposedly began there, but that's not true.

Poles also work well with diasporas, helping their people unite abroad. And migrants, in turn, positively influence the perception of Poland in the world.

Of course, not everything is perfect here either; there are flaws in restoration, for example. But they make the most of what they can.

Павялічыць

"NN": Unexpectedly, the village of Pryluki (specifically, the Chapsis palace) near Minsk has become very popular. What top-3 places with a similar vibe in Belarus would you recommend visiting? So that crowds don't only grow in Pryluki.

YK: It's hard to limit myself to just three recommendations, but I'll name the following places that are personally atmospheric and inspiring to me. First and foremost, it's Liubcha near Navahrudak with the Kishka-Radziwill castle, which is slowly being restored. There's an old park, a piece of a tower stands on a hill, and below it, a steep slope and the winding Neman River. It's very beautiful there. For me, it's one of my favorite places.

In those areas, I was also very impressed by the fantasy estate "Litowka." This is a slightly different topic, but when I visited it for the first time, I was very surprised by how everything was done there — even the bus stop, for example, with a reference to Adam Mickiewicz's work "Grażyna."

I would also mention the Umyastouski palace in Zhamyslaul — I hope life will return there one day. It's a copy of the palace in Warsaw's Łazienki Park, but on an even larger scale. Unfortunately, it's abandoned. But even in its abandoned state, it is impressive, as are the surrounding areas.

And the Katlubai estate in Yastrambel, in the Baranavichy district.

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